Law – Ursula D.

Read all about a fierce woman ready to take on the Supreme Court!

When I first met Glynis Gilio during a two month study abroad in London, England, I knew there was something so special about her. She is incredibly driven, intelligent, and always bursting with energy and positivity- all qualities that I know will serve here well as a future Constitutional lawyer. To take you through her journey to becoming a lawyer, here is Glynis herself!

Glynis! Tell the blog community a little bit about yourself!

I’m currently in my final year of law school at Michigan State University College of Law. My legal studies specialize in constitutional litigation, specifically First Amendment free speech and political speech issues. In addition to my classes, I am the Vice President of our student government, the Student Bar Association, a competitive member of the Trademark Moot Court team, a student-member of MSU Law’s Geoffrey Fieger Trial Practice Institute, and a performing member of MSU Law’s Musical Theatre Law Revue. In my free time, I love to paint, travel, spend time with my five-year-old shih tzu-pekingese mix Pepper, sing, dance, act, and obsess over all things Real Housewives.

When did you first become interested in law and what interests you most about becoming a lawyer?

My path to the legal profession is very atypical. Prior to attending law school, I was a professional actress for almost a decade. I had the opportunity to travel all over the country for various acting engagements on film and onstage. I loved my work, but I was advised by many actors, who knew that I was an impressionable young girl, that being a full-time actor is hard work. It often results in long periods of unemployment, struggles to pay the bills. I knew of a very successful actress in Chicago who lived in a one-bedroom apartment with her fiancé and two other couples. Many of my mentors impressed upon me that if being an actress was the only thing that I knew I wanted to do, or could do, then I should pursue that. But if I knew that I could use my passions or talents elsewhere, I should pursue other avenues.

I began to examine what I loved doing the most. I loved reading, writing, working collaboratively, and telling great stories. A family friend suggested law school and expressed his belief that I would be a great lawyer. I initially laughed at the thought. I didn’t feel as though I was smart enough to take the LSAT, let alone get into a law school or pass the bar. But I felt a call in my heart to pursue this avenue, and I’m glad I followed that call.

Why did you choose to specialize in constitutional law and what do you believe is the most important deciding factor in choosing a legal specialization?

I’ve studied constitutional theory and history for the vast majority of my life. The Constitution was the centerpiece of my undergraduate studies. I’ve always been taught to have a great amount of respect for the Constitution and its founding. Constitutional questions have always fascinated me the most. Constitutional legal questions also often have the greatest consequences hanging in the balance. Equal protection and substantive due process questions can have life changing effects upon so many people’s lives. Constitutional law is influential, consequential, and often very provocative. Who wouldn’t want to work in that space?

I believe, and perhaps this is because of my music and theatre background, that there is a rhythm to every area of the law. A rhythm to family law, a rhythm to environmental law, a rhythm to the IRS tax code, etc. You have to find which rhythm you can follow along with. Very often, it may not be just one area of the law. For instance, although I have a strong passion for constitutional law, I also love intellectual property law. I think it is also helpful to get practice experience in whatever specialization you’re interested in. I’ve been fortunate to work at various public interest law firms, so I have the practical experience in constitutional litigation to know that this is what I want to do.

Have your internship experiences helped shape your perspective and interest in law and, if so, how?

Law school is all about the theoretical, and internship experiences are about the practical. Internship experiences give you insight into the nuances of the practice of law that you would never receive in law school classes. Oftentimes I feel that working with attorneys can either turn people off to the practice of law or reaffirm their desire to be a part of that community. For me, it has certainly done that latter. During my time at Freedom Foundation, for example, I have had the opportunity to write an amicus brief for the Supreme Court. The fact that I get to know that the Supreme Court Justices are going to read my work. That is such an exciting prospect that I can’t help but feel motivated to continue working to refine my skills. The opportunities, and new perspectives, that internship experiences can provide are invaluable, and they have certainly helped me to get closer to becoming the attorney that I want to be.

What is the most valuable professional advice someone has given to you and what is a piece of advice you would give to someone interested in studying law?

I think the most valuable professional advice that I’ve been given is to be unapologetic in the pursuit of your career goals. Oftentimes, people who are just starting out can feel like it’s annoying or bothersome to send follow up emails or cold emails about job opportunities. I was encouraged to disregard those hesitations because the reward is often so much greater than the potential fear that someone reading an email may feel bothered or annoyed. This has been the best advice I could have received because I have reaped nothing but beneficial results from being bold. I secured my first internship during law school from a cold email to a fellow college alumni. I’ve even had prospective employers thank me for follow-up emails because my initial email got buried in their inbox. This approach really puts the “be fearless in the pursuit of your dreams” mentality into action.

My advice to anyone interested in studying law is do not go to law school unless you know that you want to be an attorney. I say many of my friends and classmates struggle during their first year of law school because they decided to go to law school in the hopes of becoming something other than an attorney. Many people decide to go to law school because they couldn’t think of anything else that they wanted to do after working for a few years. Law school rigorously trains you to become a lawyer. If you feel called to become a politician, teacher, cop, or anything else, law school is probably not the right path for you. This should come as no surprise, but law school is a very stressful experience. What motivated me to push through the stress is because I knew that at the end of all of it, and after hopefully passing the bar exam, I would become a lawyer. If you don’t want to be a lawyer, the stress will be doubled or tripled because you will be constantly questioning why you subjected yourself to that experience. So my advice is to think long and hard about whether you want to become a lawyer before applying to law school.

When you become a practicing constitutional lawyer, what is one thing you are looking forward to?

I am looking forward to interacting with my clients. That is an experience that you rarely ever get during your law school experience. Especially in the constitutional law arena, the majority of the time clients have emotionally compelling stories. As a people-person I’m really looking forward to having one-on-one time with my client. Nobody ever wants to have to call their lawyer. Being a lawyer is about knowing how to help people during the worst situations in their lives. There has to be a level of sensitivity there. That is why it is so important to form strong, dependable relationships with your clients so that they know they can count on you to get them through their personally challenging time.

What impact do you hope to make in the legal profession?

One day I hope to give an oral argument at the podium of the Supreme Court. I want my career to support the efforts to protect individual liberties against government infringement, support a limited, transparent government, and safeguard the cherished tradition in our country of preserving liberty and justice for all. There are ever-growing threats to citizens’ individual liberties and so many legal questions that remain unsolved. These are the very questions that I want my work to address.

What about the future excites you as a law student and future lawyer?

The practice of law changes so quickly. Over the past year, there have been so many changes from remote working to virtually giving oral arguments. This is something that the legal profession has had to rapidly acclimate to. The traditional brick-and-mortar law firms may be obsolete in the next decade. There are so many new possibilities in terms of where the practice of law could go, and I’m excited to ride that wave.

Ever wonder what it is like to be a business attorney? Well, now you know.

When asking Dayne Brown about her experience as a business attorney, I thought it best we start at the very beginning: how she ended up sitting down to take the LSAT in the first place.

Dayne first mentioned that she always wanted to work in book publishing and moved from her home in Seattle, Washington to New York, New York to start her first career working for Oxford University Press. Dayne specialized in historical non-fiction while working at Oxford University Press for four years, earning $30,300 a year. Even in 2007, this was barely enough to get by in New York City. When her apartment got bed bugs (eep!) that wouldn’t leave, Dayne found herself stuck. She had no savings and she did not have enough money to move out of her apartment and replace all of her things, so she was forced to move back home to Seattle. Before bedbugs, Dayne had been reluctantly exploring other careers that might provide a more sustainable livelihood. Fortunately, one of her friends (a former NYC public school teacher) was in his last year of law school at Columbia at that time and was quite candid about his move into law. He shared the fact that he would be earning a six-figure income right immediately upon graduation. However, he also mentioned this sort of position was really only available to people who attend one of the top ten law schools in the nation. Admission at those schools is based almost entirely on the applicant’s Law School Admissions Test, or LSAT, score. Dayne then spent hours during her lunch breaks, on weekends, and in the evenings self-tutoring to take the LSAT. When she received her score, Dayne knew that she would likely receive admission to at least one of the top schools, and she ended up attending The University of Chicago’s Law School.

While attending The University of Chicago, Dayne soon realized that she was more interested in business law as opposed to other forms of law such as litigation. Dayne was more passionate about the collaboration that working in business law involved. She noted that, often in business matters, lawyers are interested in helping achieve what is in the best interest of everyone, while litigation is often a zero-sum game.

Having worked in business law for six years, Dayne is currently an associate at a large law firm, Cooley LLP, that specializes in representing high-growth technology and life sciences companies. Dayne’s clients are most often pre-revenue and raising capital from venture capital funds that specialize in early-stage investments. Dayne has worked on many private financing deals as well as biotech initial public offerings, or IPOs. She also assists her early-stage clients with corporate governance, employment, and equity compensation issues.

For Dayne, a typical workday involves checking her email first thing in the morning in order to gauge the business of her day. On a busy day when she is involved in a couple of active deals, Dayne might receive more than 200 emails. The volume of email traffic is a result of her role as a filter, both for information that needs to flow upward to partners and downward to paralegals and junior associates. Dayne first answers the most urgent emails and then often spends an hour or two on client calls and in administrative meetings. In the afternoon, Dayne drafts documents, provides feedback on the work product of more junior attorneys, and she might have a call or two with opposing counsel. Most days, Dayne is able to take a couple of hours off in the evening to spend with her young children. Dayne then usually gets back online at around 8:30 pm to finish any outstanding projects and to correspond with clients, partners, and associates.

Another aspect of Dayne’s work is finding clients for Cooley. One way to do this is through a strong social media presence, for instance through LinkedIn, her personal bio on the firm’s website, speaking on panels, and participating in networking events. Thus far, however, Dayne has been most successful in acquiring clients who are also personal friends. Even when they aren’t friends first, Dayne’s client relationships often last for years as she and the other attorneys she works with will support a company as it grows and its legal needs become more complex.

A typical venture financing deal that she works on takes about three to six weeks and involves a relatively small investment (usually between $2 and $10 million). Mergers and acquisitions, or M&A, deals typically take six to twelve weeks because of the higher level of due diligence that is required, and an IPO takes about six to nine months.

Dayne notes that the most challenging part of her work is getting to the right answer in an efficient manner. Many of Dayne’s clients expect her to be an expert in the specific law and technicalities of their field. Dayne mentions that it can be challenging to become familiar with the specifics of each deal, work on the legalities of the deal, and communicate this effectively to the client, and fast. Her clients pay on an hourly basis, which makes executing a deal in a timely manner for these companies very important. Associates on Dayne’s level are responsible for transforming a three-page term sheet–which outlines the principle agreement between parties–into a hundred pages of documents that lay out the specifics of what is being agreed upon. This ties into the greatest misconception that Dayne believes people have about lawyers–that lawyers are made to throw up roadblocks to hinder their progress. As Dayne highlights, lawyers are there to assist growing businesses to thrive and prosper in the most effective, efficient, and legal (of course!) way.

Dayne views the healthcare industry as being ripe for disruption, which is why it has become one area of focus for her. Helping people bring their ideas to the world is what Dayne has become passionate about and what she believes makes her work compelling. Dayne represents companies that are looking to solve some of the world’s toughest problems in innovative ways, which makes her work incredibly engaging.

Her advice for anyone looking to attend law school? Dayne mentions that it will definitely be helpful to know why, specifically, you want to go to law school. For example, it is good to know whether you want to become a public defender or are leaning toward M&A transactions. Additionally, considering law school is such a capital intensive decision, you want to make sure that your investment will be worth it! Dayne advises that, if you want a job at a firm, you spend a lot of time studying for the LSAT; your LSAT score will determine if you are able to go to a reputable school and therefore have a better chance of getting a job in a law firm afterward. Graduating from second, third, and fourth-tier law schools often result in not even close to the same opportunities at firms as top tier schools, resulting in a lot of underemployed law school graduates. One tip for deciding where to go to law school is to look at the school’s post-graduate employment statistics and also some of the places that graduates from these schools are employed at. This will provide an idea of the kinds of opportunities that you will be exposed to upon graduation.

If you are interested in becoming a lawyer, I hope that you take the time to consider some of Dayne’s wealth of professional advice. If you haven’t ever considered it, never rule law out completely, you never know when and where the law bug may bite!

Tag: Law

Glynis Gilio on becoming a Constitutional Lawyer